When It's Your Job to Fire Your Coworker
Hard Conversations in the First Decade of Work
Volume 1, Issue 8
Javairia Taylor joins the Mode/Switch to talk about painful conversations in the workplace. Early-career professionals often have to do difficult work for their reluctant supervisors, sometimes even to the point of telling coworkers they’re being fired. It’s a tricky and tensioned spot. But in the edited transcript below, I think you’ll appreciate Javairia’s stories for the way they raise vital questions about grace in the workplace.
Craig: Let’s say I bring a camera crew and do a documentary about your work. Where would you take us?
Javairia: Most of my days are conversations, not in dramatic scenery. I work HR for a security company.
Craig: What gives you joy in that work?
Javairia: Most of my joy comes from being out in the field. When you engage with your employees, you develop those relationships, you see what's going on—maybe something as small as “I've had this shirt for the past three months, and I have a hole in it. Can I get a new shirt?”
Craig: You're not just this bureaucrat behind a desk.
Javairia: That was part of the reason why I wanted to get into HR. I wanted to make a difference.
Craig: Alright, so let's go to the other end of the spectrum. What’s draining about HR work?
Javairia: Having to term someone where I didn’t get the final say-so. We always termed employees for falling asleep, although it’s third shift, and there’s nothing to do. So, if this person falls asleep, it’s automatic termination. But why can’t we allow grace to this person?
Craig: Did you get training for how to do that conversation?
Javairia: No, it was on-the-job training! When I first started off, I was an HR coordinator, which is more of an entry-level position, and I had an HR manager at that time. And she left to go help out a different branch two weeks later. So, I was like, “OK, it's sink or swim.” Our organization changed—they got bought out—and they promoted me to HR generalist. The things I had to as an HR generalist were very different than what I had to do as an HR coordinator, and I didn't have the training. “All right, so this is my first time terming someone. I don't know how this is supposed to go!” And at first, it was really scary.
Craig: Did you script it out for yourself or no?
Javairia: We would never term someone without documentation. So we would always use the documentation as a guide as to what we’ll say. Never an easy conversation.
Craig: So, tell us a story. I’m back to my camera crew again: give us the movie here.
Javairia: I developed a relationship with this employee—she’d been at this site for probably ten years. She was respected by the clients, by the other officers. Everyone knew who she was. She would call me at the office and talk about things.
We had a new project manager—ex-military, ex-police. He knows how he wants things. And at times, she did not meet the mark. So, he wanted to correct her. He would nitpick her writing. He would find the smallest things and say, “We’ll have to fire her.” And I’m like, “No, it does not work like that. We’re not going to fire someone without documentation.”
I sat in on those conversations where he corrected her, because she's also the only African American at the site. So, I did not want her to feel as though she was being picked on.
She got terminated because she was not performing her job duties. She was supposed to go around making sure the doors were locked. But instead, that day the camera on the elevator was not working. She spent her time trying to figure out what was going on with the elevator. And then, when shift change came, the next office reported, “This door was unlocked.” That cost her job. The woman’s been at the site for 10 years! How about we allow her some grace to change these habits?
I don't think I slept the night before we had the call. I knew just how much of a dedicated person she was. She loved her job—super happy all the time. Having to tell her that we had to separate ways was really hard. Just hearing her plead for her job—she started crying on the phone. I had to tell her, “I’m going to hang up now.”
Even the days following, she would still call back. And I had to tell her, “This is not in my hands. I'm sorry, but we just won't be able to hire you back.”
Craig: Have you ever had moments where you felt like you were able to extend grace?
Javairia: One that comes to mind is a woman [with whom] I had a special bond, because I hired her a couple of weeks after I started. We learned things at the same time. She would call me sometimes just to chat. And I’m like, “Can’t talk right now! I’m working!”
But she was really nice. Her children came to work for us, and so I got to know them as well. One of her children, she ended up passing away. Losing a child is really hard—the officer, she was missing days of work. I was able to go to my manager and say, “Hey, this is what is going on with her. Maybe we allow her to take some time off, take a leave. Her vacation pay is coming—maybe she can take that as well. So that way, she's not missing work and missing out on money. She’s able to grieve.”
Craig: I like that story a lot. Let me ask you, what are people’s tendencies in tough conversations like this?
Javairia: I had a co-worker who would participate in terminations—but he would always want me to call the person. I would dread it. How does this become normal for you?
Craig: I gotta say, I'm not super-admiring the people over you in this conversation.
Javairia: They're not bad people, but that's always a challenge because they can see the bigger picture. I think about how it impacts those people in that moment—as opposed to, how does it affect everyone? How does it affect the environment at work? What does this mean for other employees who will do it after us?
Craig: One last question: what advice would you give to people in critical conversations like this?
Javairia: Always take a collaborative approach to things. Always talk it out with someone—someone that you trust that is on your level or above. Always speak up, even at those moments where you feel like what you say is not going to help the employee. There will be moments where what you say will be impactful. It may not be that your solution is used in that moment, but you will gain the trust of others. And you will learn more about yourself and what you’re willing to stand for.
Craig: It seems to me that you might sleep a little better.
Javairia: I would say that, too.
Who I’m Learning From
Here’s a disquieting and provocative playlist that shows just how difficult early-career professionalism can be. Jake Gyllenhaal’s uncannily on-the-nose interviews with a potential employer enact the tensions of young career professionals in a truly disturbing fashion. The other two texts (a book and a pod) actually speak over the shoulders of Gen-Zs and millennials in order to address their managers. But they also make clear just how much people in their first decade of work need wise and courageous leadership from their one-ups and higher-ups.
Nightcrawler with Jake Gyllenhaal
It’s the Manager by Jim Clifton and Jim Harper
The podcast Tough Conversations by David Wood
Editor’s Note
The title of this newsletter, The Mode/Switch, may seem like an odd combination of words. The idea owes some homage to Eric Jenkins and the discussion of humans as homo modus, a species who changes things up on a regular basis. In honor of that, I wanted a long-form reflection on some of Jenkins’s argument in the form of a book review of his latest work Surfing the Anthropocene—which may provide a small glimpse into why we, as people, are always switching things around.
Want to stay up-to-date and get some exclusive, AMA-style content? Check out The Mode/Switch Instagram!